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D.W. Winnicott, "Playing: A Theoretical Statement"
Char DeCroos
-It is stated that play is a universal that leads to health. In this sense
do people ever stop playing? Take "beer and chips" recruiting or Ally
McBeal for example. However is the current vogue adult play in accordance
with the premise that playing facilitates growth and therefore health?
Stephanie K. Dalquist
-Regarding her thesis (italicized, p. 38) couldn't it also be read that
if psychotherapy is two people playing together, than the converse might
be true: two people playing together is therapy? (ie role playing, symbolism,
as with the girl and the doll, knocking things over, putting it between
her legs, etc.)
-Do fetish objects in childhood retain any special significance in adulthood?
David Spitz
-My question is more semantic than interpretive: What does Winnicott mean
by 'culture'? Is Winnicott's use of the term entirely idiosyncratic?
Walter Dan Stiehl
-I have a hard time believing that the simple act of the child discovering
her toes had stopped her fit. What really happened? Was it that someone
was playing with her that stopped her fits?
Max Bajracharya
-Winnicott speaks of adults playing with word choice, inflection, etc,
but doesn't adult playing go well beyond this, and in perhaps a much more
serious way? Ibsen's A Doll's House sort of comes to mind. It seems like
play, in the way it's being used (the potential space; the home, etc)
makes it much more general.
Mike Ananny
-Can children play without objects? In the paper "A Theory of Play and
Fantasy", the same author suggests that intonation, choice of words and
humour are also forms of play. How does this agree with this author's
construction of a play space in which objects are primary? Can we simply
abstract this out and say that language can also be a manipulatable object
and the theory still holds? Or is there something unique to the presence
of tangible objects in the environment? As an aside, does the author really
mean "mother" throughout this paper or is it just an example of a parent?
Jeannie R. Ben-Hain
-I was very confused by a lot of connections that were made or inferred
upon play choices. he talks a lot about Edmund using a string and this
being very symbolic about union, but I just couldnt see it. The section
about "magical control" and 'omnipotence' also confused me a great deal.
Also, in the case of the girl who would have fits and then "magically"
stopped having them, how did he help her at all? How did his actions serve
to 'cur' her?
Hilarie Claire Tomasiewicz
-In discussing the 'deprived child,' W.'s observation that deprived children
have an "impoverishment of capacity to experience in the cultural field"
leads him to propose a study "of the effect of deprivation at the time
of loss of what has become accepted as reliable." (referring to loss of
the mother or some aspect thereof) What if a child never experiences this
"loss" of what has been previously been reliable, because he has never
had stability of this sort in the first place? What if the mother was
abusive?
Brandy Evans
-I don't understand why he included the story about the girl who was having
seizures (at least I assume that's what the "fits" were) at all. It's
obvious that somehow discovering that her toes were a part of her and
could not be "thrown away" was the turning point that allowed her to recover,
but why is it significant that she made this discovery in his office?
Why would she have felt more at ease and allowed to play when with him
than at any other time? Couldn't she have done this on her own eventually,
and if not, why not? He doesn't mention any of this.
Girim Sung
-Winnicott suggests that, "play was of a self-healing kind" for Edmund
and Diana. Could or has play been used therapeutically for adults as well?
If so, how?
Anindita Basu
-In the case of Edmund, couldn't his play have been influenced by the
conversation around him and been an interaction with the surrounding dialogue
instead of "a communication with some part of the self?"
-Isn't the dialogue between Diana's mother and Winicott important to include,
especially since th therapist notes that Diana "was listening with one
ear" so her play really could have been influenced by the dialogue around
her?
-How can the potential space between internal and external realities be
related to the shared space between virtual and actual reality--specially
since play occurs in both shared spaces?
Melanie Wong
-I laughed at this one. "Although I am not attempting to review the literature
I do wish to pary tribute..." and "It is hardly necessary to illustrate
something so obvious as playing; nevertheless I propose to give two examples."......onto
the real question.
-How is the string a "symbol of separateness and of union through communication"?
Or more so, can't these analyses be manipulated into almost any reasonable
tie that the psychoanalyst sees?
Daniel Huecker
-How does he explain/justify the apparent ease with which children enter
into a playspace? His examples draw heavily on the significance of the
child's psychic activity during play, but never speaks to how that play
state is entered/exited or maintained.
D.W. Winnicott, "The Location of Cultural Experience"
Char DeCroos
-Many an paradoxical question is rasied but never answered. Where the
heck is the substantiation for phrases like, "the child is alone only
in the presence of someone", or "we have yet to tackle the question of
what life itself is about", without ever bothering to answer the question.
Stephanie K. Dalquist
-What happens to children who lack a "potential space?" Can children exist
without one?
-Does the child's awareness of something like a "potential space" matter?
I can't imagine any baby (and some of their parents, probably) having
a grasp of such a concept...
-What is the father's role in the "potential space?" Again, the referrent
of love is always given to the mother! Winnicott describes the "personal
or psychic reality" as "biologically determined." Is this connected to
her Freudianism? I would've suspected a Freudian to describe such reality
as cicumstantially determined (ie thephases of sexuality, resulting personalities).
Walter Dan Stiehl
-Why does Winnicott purely focus on the potential space between child
and mother? Doesn't the exploration of the environment include the father
as well as other people and objects?
Max Bajracharya
-Can one really witness the "child's first use of a symbol" (96)? How
is the baby's use of this object different from its relationship with
the mother (the Other)? What is the significance of a physical object
being the catalyst to a baby's realization of the self?
Mike Ananny
-The author seems to suggest that the goal of the parent (mother) is to
provide a stable environment in which the baby's self-confidence is elevated
such that the baby can feel comfortable enough to explore creatively.
I'm trying to tease apart, though, the influence of trust and stability
on a child's use of creativity in fantasy play versus their use of creative
play as escapist self-exploration. I.e. must children feel confident in
their play space to engage in fantasy play? What is the difference between
escapism and fantasy play? Plaut's quote on p. 102 seems to suggest that
fantasy play is not possible without trust; so, is this presence/absence
of trust the difference between escapism and fantasy?
-The author also seems to think that the child require a certain level
of confidence in the constancy of their environment, their bond with the
mother and their understanding of objects to fully appreciate the power
of creative play. I disagree and think that fantasy/creative play is how
a child gains confidence in environment, relationships, objects. I.e.
is the author arguing that the ego a prerequisite or a product of fantasy
play?
Jeannie R. Ben-Hain
-How does he distinguish between when a mother is gone for x+y minutes
and when she is gone for x+y+z? How is it possible to know the difference?
Anindita Basu
-How does Winicott's notion of "life" and living as more than an absence
of unhealth relate to his theories on play?
-is there a difference between his concepts of "life" and "creative living?"
Melanie Wong
-Do child psychoanalysts and those that study play still believe in this
"potential space"?
Daniel Huecker
-"(play) space is a highly variable factor... whereas the two other locations
- personal or psychic reality and the actual world - are relatively constant,
one being biologically determined and the other being common property."
At the end Winnicott makes it sound as if the psychic reality is fixed
biologically and doesn't respond to the play space created between the
mind and the world. Where would he put the important site of development
if not in the psychic reality of the mind?
Gregory Bateson, "A Theory of Play and Fantasy"
Char DeCroos
-Does communicating about something that does not exist truly lead to
"a vast variety of complications and inversions in the fileds of play,
fantasy, and art?" Or is Bateston merely overanalyzing a simple intuitive
division.
Stephanie K. Dalquist
-What could be the distinction between the play based on "this is play"
and "is this play?" The distinction seems likely to be drawn mostly on
lines of motivation, as in: kids play violent video games. Is it just
a game (this is play) or "training" and desensitization, practice for
a more agressive and violent reality?
David Spitz
-Both Winnicott and Bateson want to bring adults into their picture of
"play." What are the distinctions, if any, being drawn between children's
and adult's play? What does this "denote" in terms of their conceptions
of childhood?
Walter Dan Stiehl
-This article is a full circle in which the author simply states a fact,
goes off on a tangent, and then restates his fact. Why does the author
not look at the biological or scientific "signals" as he proposes to at
the beginning? By looking at play from this angle a much better argument
would be made. There is no addressing of situations in which one person's
play is interpreted as combat by another. There is no scientific analysis
in this paper whatsoever.
Max Bajracharya
-Does play rely completely on human abstraction and communication (in
the sign/symbol sense)? Animals without these representation skill still
show signs of playing...what is the importance of the connection of objects
and symbols (and relation to the self)?
Mike Ananny
-It is very interesting to think about how we use signs that have the
same surface structure (play versus battle) to convey different signals?
To me, it seems that the key concept here is intentionality; i.e. children
have, perhaps, not become more linguistically capable (in a surface structure
or grammatical way) but have perhaps acquired the more general cognitive
ability of decoding the intent of actions by understanding the beliefs
and desires of their interlocutors. The real developmental phenomenon
is a more generalizable one that extends beyond the sign, token or surface
level structure of language. Therefore, play impacts both the metalinguistic
and metacognitive development of the child. (Also interestingly, Maya
Hickman discusses children's use of transparent speech acts as a sign
of metalinguistic awareness.)
-Recalling the Inuit community, could the adults' teasing of children
in that society also been a way of teaching metalinguistic awareness?
Is it even possible to teach metalinguistic awareness or is it something
that must be discovered?
Jeannie R. Ben-Hain
-I liked this article, but hoped to read more about signs that show that
"this is play". It seems that very often this signal is unclear. Some
of this is coming out in light of the absence of body language/tone/inflection
in elextronic (internet, email) forms of communication. Will we develop
new types of signals to account for this if we move further in this direction?
Hilarie Claire Tomasiewicz
-This article was terribly confusing. Does Bateson propose an approximate
age when human children "cease to respond quite automatically to the mood
signs of another and become able to recognize the sign as a signal?"
Brandy Evans
-Was such a drawn-out explanation really necessary? I understood 1-11.
I started to get a little iffy on 12, but I kept understanding till 17,
although I progressively lost the ability to see what it had to do with
the first part. At 17 and 18, Bateson completely lost me. I don't understand
it at all, even after reading it twice, or what it has to do with the
rest, really. He seems to be repeating himself a lot. But I think I pretty
much understand 19 - so was the intermediate stuff really necessary? I
think it confused me more than anything, and made me think maybe I had
missed the point of the first part of it (1-12). Maybe I did miss the
point of the whole thing. What was the point of it all, exactly?
Girim Sung
-Bateson explains the difference between play and non-play and how this
difference is communicated through meta communicative signs between people.
These two people are able to judge the line between what is play and non
play by subconsciously and consciously reading one another's verbal and
physical cues. However, without another person's reaction, why can one
not always judge for oneself if one is in play or non-play? For example,
every night, we all shift between play and non-play. But, we do not know
we are dreaming until we wake up. Bateson saids that "Within a dream,
the dreamer is usually unaware that he is dreaming, and within "within
play" he must often be reminded that "this is play"." Perhaps not knowing
whether we are in play or non-play, allows us to fully explore and experience
each moment of our fantasy. But it is rather interesting that for communication
we are allowed signals, but in understanding oneself--what would be the
equivalent of meta signals to differentiate between reality or fantasy?
Also, memories sometimes blur the reality with fantasy to give inaccurate
recollections of what happened. How do psychological frames work in the
formation of memories? Does the ego differentiate between reality and
fantasy or does the id have total control and let one remember what one
desires to remember?
Anindita Basu
-Would Bateson disagree with Rousseau's idea that lying is a concept introduced
by adults? He seems to suggest that it's natural, an almost innate trait.
-Isn't play ever mistaken for something real? His separation between ritual
and play (point 9) seems artificial. What are other distinctions between
play and ritual?
-Are there other qualities/traits of play other than developing communication
and setting up mental frames? Why do children play? Is itinnate that they
act in these ways to develop certain skills? Do different types of play
develop different skills aside from a very general set of "map-territory
relations?"
Daniel Huecker
-How does Bateson's idea of psychological frames of play contrast with
Winnicott's theory of psychic reality in play?
Melanie Wong
-Please explain number 4.
-In 13, I disagree that the recognition of play is creates a conflict
with play. Adults (and "conscious members of society") play games all
the time.
-This does not halt their enjoyment.
Suzanne Gaskins, "How Mayan Parental Theories Come
Into Play"
Char DeCroos
-Does Gaskin's work serve as a justification for Rosseau's theories of
the idealistic, peasant child? It certainly does make a strong case for
it.
Stephanie K. Dalquist
-Are the categories in Gaskin's paper (i.e. Scooter Babies") translations
of the Mayan terms or one she has given? How did these terms come about?
-Was there any long term effect on her son as far as his exposure to both
Mayan and English at an early age, say in future language learning, distinctions,
etc.?
-Chores are divided by gender for children arounda ge 4 to 6 - how does
this correlate to other understandings/traditions among the children and
society having to do with gender and sex?
-Many things are mentioned which will change a child's life (ie the way
the town is divided up physically, etc.) at the beginning of the paper,
but they do not seem to be explored to any depth. Any suggestions on how
the climate described has affected the children/parenting?
Walter Dan Stiehl
-I cannot help but think of Rousseau while reading the article. It seems
that these Mayan children are more or less left to learn and explore by
themselves. Is this a similar feature in many ancient cultures?
Max Bajracharya
-Is play ever really thought of as productive by parents? Do most parents
let their children play for the child's fulfillment and happiness, or
because they think it is an important part of the child's development?
Mike Ananny
-It is interesting that cultural traditions and norms seem to be the guiding
forces for Mayan children's development, not specific parental instructions.
Is this a healthier, more diverse approach to inter-child differences
(i.e. not overly prescriptive from the parents) or is it more difficult
for a child who may differ from the traditional cultural norm because
he/she has to rebel against an entire community, not "simply" a family?
Jeannie R. Ben-Hain
-Related to what we were talking about in class on Monday, its interesting
how the Mayans dont split children up by gender until about the age of
6 which is when Justine said that children start developing a sense of
"boyness" and "girlness". I was wondering if homosexuality was at all
prevalent in these types of cultures where male and female roles are so
clearly defined?
Hilarie Claire Tomasiewicz
-"To interpret parent's actions toward and expectations of their children
meaningfully, we must first understand their cultural goals as parents."
It seems to me that 'cultural goals' is a somewhat broad if not downright
ambiguous term. What exactly is meant here?
Girim Sung
-Gaskins states that, "in terms of many characteristics, including intelligence,
talent, and disposition, children are thought to be influenced completely
by innate forces that are beyond both their own and their parents' ability
to change or control." So unlike our society, the Mayan society does not
believe that children are like tabula rosa. Gaskins asserts further by
saying that, "If asked why an individual child is a certain way, the invariable
response is, "That's just his way of being." So then how does the Mayan
culture deal with homosexuality? Would they view it as an innate disposition
that should be fostered?
Anindita Basu
-Gaskins takes a lot of care to describe the child's surroundings, but
that is the significance of living in a compound with the house set up
in a particular way? How does that affect children's play?
-Firstborn children don't have siblings to care for them or which they
can follow and from whom they can learn. Are they raised differently?
-How does a lack of objects or toys influence the Mayan children's play?
Do they construct more elaborate stories to make up for a lack of objects?
Is their play more focused around the objects they do have? In what kinds
of play do they engage and how does that relate to their cultural expectations?
Is the play highly gendered? Are boys more mobile?
Daniel Huecker
-Focusing on play objects (toys) and play activities (games) seems to
miss some important areas and ideas of play. Where is her discussion of
the imitation of adult activities as play (washing clothes, planting seeds)
which then transitions into the child at work alongside the adult?
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