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Seymour Papert "Computers for Children"

Stephanie K. Dalquist
-The concept of mathaphobia is *so* true! How did this come about? How can we overcome it?
-What were the issues in choosing a turtle for LOGO? Why not a snail, bunny, frog?
-Though programming in LOGO, as the author acknowledges, is a bit simplistic, does this better introduce children to the logical thought necessary for "real" programming?

Walter Dan Stiehl
-I find it interesting to read a discussion of the physical turtle on the floor. Which was first, the virtual turtle or the physical turtle? Was the physical turtle introduced in schools as well as the virtual one? What was the reaction to the physical turtle?

Jeannie R. Ben-Hain
-Why do you suppose that much of the US is "mathphobic"? What does this say about our style of teaching/learning? Do you think this will change as technological fields become more and more important?

Girim Sung
-If children have trouble doing school math, aren't they just as likely to get frustrated with programming on Turtle?

Max Bajracharya
-Is there an explanation of why children (humans in general) are interested by recursion and hierarchy and order in structures like this? Would all children find it logical to make a flower by making parts and duplicating them and then duplicating that flower to actually make a garden?

Jennifer Chung
-At what age should this type of programming be introduced? At what age *can* this type of programming be introduced?

Hilarie Claire Tomasiewicz
-Is nothing complex to this guy? How will the schools of the future be organized if there is no organized instruction?

Christian Baekkelund
-Early in this introductory chapter, it states that he will "describe learning paths that have led hundreds of children to becoming quite sophisticated programmers", because he envisions not "the computer being used to program the child" but instead "the child programs the computer". I like to program -- I'm a CS major at MIT...but what about those children who aren't interested in programming? How can these similar techniques be applied to children interested in history, for example? In that case, wouldn't "computer-aided instruction" in the traditional sense be better?
-Also, later it is stated that the previously described teaching mechanisms were "more like learning French by spending a week or two on vacation in France than like living there". What about in the future when kids are "living there" in the technological realm? How will that change things?

Adrienne DeWolfe
-Papert sees the computer presence radically modifying the learning environment to make schools obsolete. What knowledge will not be taught well this way? (reading, writing, socialization, cooperation, citizenship, etc.) His concept of learning would require parents to take a much greater role in the education of their children.
-Mindstorms was published in 1980. What impact has it had on the educational community and why doesn't educational computing seem to reflect many of his ideas?

Mike Ananny
-Most of Papert's article seems focused on children having relationships with computers centred on quantitative investigation, an educational tool primarily applicable to mathematical and scientific domains. How might this relationship change as computers become more ubiquitous in children's education across different and more qualitative and subjective domains (e.g. English, History, etc.)? Are Papert's ideas on computers general and applicable across the curriculum or only specific to subjects that lend themselves to quantitative, computational experimentation?

Char DeCroos
-It seems that everyone is blasting the classroom as inefficient and generally poor learning enviroment. While in the Introduction of Computers for Children, much is said about using computers to fix this problem I'm wonering if any studies on completly revamping the classroom system have been done? Are there any other ecomically viable models?

Daniel Huecker
-Empowering the child in the learning process might have many effects outside the child/computer interaction. For example: students discussing with each other (and not the teacher) how to get the turtle to do something, trying new ideas, and sharing results. Does Papert consider the social development fostered by a less dictated experience in the classroom?

Mitch Resnick, Amy Bruckman, and Fred Martin "Pianos Not Stereos: Creating Computational Construction Kits"

Stephanie K. Dalquist
-Does this richer experience business hold true for kids who are *forced* to take piano? Does this parental forcing come into play with the computer? I hear of more parents trying to get their kids *off* of the computer!
-Is Starlogo really as effective as described? Can this be tested? Does it work/are there other programs that work on understanding other social structures as it does with the decentralised?
-Could programmes like MOOSE Crossing initiated on a large scale correct the grammatical and spelling sloppiness induced (supposedly) by the advent of the internet and email?

Walter Dan Stiehl
-What is the best learning tool for a child: is it the virtual world of the computer where graphical avatars live on the screen, or is it the physical tangible world of the child?

Jeannie R. Ben-Hain
-What is so wrong with "abstract symbol manipulation" and "aggregate quantities"? Arent they just two different ways to look at the same idea? Shouldnt we be learning both?

Girim Sung
-While there are girls cited in this paper, I was wondering, "are the majority of girls interested in playing with the programmable blocks?"

Max Bajracharya
-Doesn't forcing the child to build and make something work (compose rather than listen) reduce the space of that toy? Instead of plain legos, which can be anything, is a motor/sensor always forced to be a motor/sensor because it must be plugged in and turned on? Can a motor ever function as something it was not meant to be?

Jennifer Chung
-The projects discussed in the programmable bricks section specifically -- did the children come up with these projects themselves, or were the topics suggested by grown-ups? How important is the part about children learning to come up with their own projects in that specific set; is merely thinking through the engineering to execute a project more or less valuable than, say, the coming up with a project in MOOSE crossing?

Hilarie Claire Tomasiewicz
-As a designer of constructional-design technology, which do you think is more important, personal connections or epistemolgical connections?

Christian Baekkelund
-At one point in this article, a girl named Callie tries to make a termite colony with a centralized control by one termite. However, "it is difficult to establish that type of centralized control in StarLogo. We discussed some of the drawbacks of a centralized leader..." Due to this inability to do the task, Callie redesigned her termite colony to a "more decentralized approach". This seems very much to me to be a personal bias of what should be stressed and taught in the StarLogo system. The StarLogo designers thought that decentralization was an important concept to stress, and correspondingly designed the StarLogo system to make centralized approaches more difficult than they may need to be to discourage such. Is this bias bad? Is there a way in which designers of these systems for children can avoid such biases? Will there ever be a truly neutral learning environment, and if so, how would such be accomplished? Should there ever be such?

Adrienne DeWolfe
-I strongly agreed with the two constructional-design principles of personal connections and epistemological connections. While the former was fairly well pointed out through examples, I failed to see strong examples of the latter. What do you think were the epistemological connections in the three examples of computational construction kits?

Char DeCroos
-I think the purpose of a computation construction kit is noble indeed, creating more intimate ties to technology and understanding by letting people apply thier creative passions towards the technology. However, are such definitions and such outcomes applicable to many videogames, particularly those of the stratagey and simulation genere? For example when one deals with the problem of economic stagnation in Sim City 2000, while experimenting with various cures, don't curosity into real solutions arise automatically?

Daniel Huecker
-What are some of the weaknesses of the constructionist approach? Would the authors overcome some of these problems by mixing other methods into the design? How is the idea of appropriation viewed by a process that values original creation?

Justine Cassell, "Feminist Design Software"

Stephanie K. Dalquist
-I found one of the most interesting topics to be the discourse rules and queue set up for Renga. How does the queue for Renga "know" when the submitted sentence fits in syntactically and semantically? What are some of the rules it uses? What if the only sentence submitted doesn't fit in to the story? Will it still be put in automatically? How do kids feel when their sentence is queued and doesn't show up?

Walter Dan Stiehl
-Why involve a computer in the role of a listener to the child in the first place? It seems that instead of a child having a human interaction and developing social skills, they instead are communicating with a computer. Even with prompting and artificial intelligence solved, it is still an inanimate object. What is the effect on the child's social skill development?

Jeannie R. Ben-Hain
-How do the products described in "Pianos not stereos" rate on the feminist software design scale? MOOSE definitely seemed to fit the criterion, but what about the other two?

Girim Sung
- What's going to happen when these imaginary playmates (computer, stuffed animal, SAM, etc.) will be able to speak/react/listen/advise-what will happen when the technology becomes more and more advanced? Would we be encouraging children to speak with supportive computers rather than speaking with judgmental children and adults?

Jennifer Chung
-Children who want to tell their stories to somebody -- okay, there are stuffed animals, pillows, tape recorders, and diaries. The latter two even serve to act as storage systems for later examination. I guess I'm still not really seeing how first-person narrating at computers (even if it includes having their story told back by a stuffed animal, or being able to interact with a character you created) can constitute a 'game'. It feels more like 'educational software' in disguise, or something. I think the GameGrrlz article that follows this one in the book mentioned stuff about how games are 'to get away', not to think about Real Life. In which case, I'm not sure I would consider these to be 'games' -- they really are, it feels, more like interactive diaries, or something...?

Hilarie Claire Tomasiewicz
-Have you noticed whether the sex of a child's created SAGE correlates more or less often with her own sex than the creation of A SAGE by an adult?

Christian Baekkelund
-Just prior to the conclusion, a possible counter-argument is raised about the potential for neglecting boys by focusing on software for girls. Also, it is stated that "boys have just as much of a need to be given access to traditionally female activies, such as using storytelling to talk about feelings. However, this counterargument is not really addressed in terms of possible solutions for the latter. What sort of solutions do exist? And where has the prior been a problem so far? (For example, what points did the Boston Globe article raise?)

Adrienne DeWolfe
-I think a very important aspect of storytelling is the sense of the listener and community. I thought both Renga and Moose Crossing (from Resnick article) nicely incorporated community and collaboration into their systems. This article plays down the role of the listener, but I would argue that it is a very important one. Is that just an adult point of view and for children, the listener is not so important?

Char DeCroos
-I understand that storytelling videogames could potentially empower female children, I wonder if the benifits would be similar for boys? Cassel's article briefly touched upon this just before the conclusion stating that, "all children have a need to explore the nonsterotypical aspects of themselves."

Daniel Huecker
-It seems that I was thinking along similar lines as the Very Famous Person when I questioned at the MediaLab the use of the term "listening" applied to what was happening with SAM, the rocking chair, and the blanket. What is the function of the audience in the narrative process? If "stories are a wonderful gifts", can HAL accept that gift? How does the computer give "the essential presence of the listener" ?