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Justine Cassell and Henry Jenkins, "Chess for Girls"
Walter Dan Stiehl
-Why must the design of a game be more "gender conscious" than simply
creative? What about non-gendered fantasy characters? It seems that an
approach of creating the best "girl game" and the best "boy game" seems
wrong, rather wouldn't it make more sense to create the best "fun interactive
game for children" where some degree of both interpersonal as well as
task oriented skills was needed to "win"?
Stephanie K. Dalquist
-Since it's been established that "separate but equal' is never truly
equal (at least in education), is this really a way to approach the issue
of designing computer games? Is this issue different somehow? One of the
comments I've heard frequently is that "none of the warriors [in Mortal
Kombat] is female" is false... editing mistake, or did the one or two
that do exist now not exist in the first releases?
-The Mario Brothers (Nintendo) series is not mentioned in the popular-for-girls
and-boys exploration games... is it really not as popular? It seems so
similar to Donkey Kong! (from a person who likes Mario for SNES better
than Donkey Kong)
-Are there other feasible ways to attract girls to computers/technology
besides (girly) computer games (especially considering different conceptualizations
of computers as toy vs. tool)? (Myself, I had access to computer all my
life, never had to compete for it, and still view it as a tool)
Girim Sung
-This chapter really clarified and outlined all the sides to the question:
do we encourage girls to beat boys at their own game, or do we construct
a girls-only space? I really have to agree though that this question does
have the underlying assumption that computers are boy games. So, I wonder
what would happened to video game culture if companies took Theresa Duncan's
advice to focus on creativity and not market research driven development.
After all, if "men design games for themselves because they understand
what they know is fun," why shouldn't women approach designing games for
girls in the same light?
Mike Ananny
-What should be the mechanism for changing girls' attitudes towards games
and computer technology? Should we design games that are girl-specific
or games that are gender-neutral? Is anything gender-neutral? It seems
that if "boys and girls like different things, act in different ways [and]
have differential successes at various tasks" (p.6) then products should
be designed differently for boys and girls -- note that this is not necessarily
the same thing as designing toys that encourage gender stereotypes. Perhaps
good interaction design should leverage gender-specific differences to
accomplish gender-neutral goals.
Joseph Kaye
-"Violent games without positive representations of women...dominate the
field."(p10) What would a positive representation of a woman be in a violent
game? For example, when "Game producers...insist that they want to respect
and value aspects of traditional feminity even as they seek to open up
new spaces for girls." (p22) Oh, and how come nobody ever mentions Carmen
Sandiego?
Max Bajracharya
-Computers and computer games seem to be a part of boy culture -- doesn't
this provide justification for why girls may not be comfortable with them;
not because of the content necessarily, but because they are already part
of the boy world? If a part of boy and girl childhood culture, it seems
like girls could gain just as much fulfillment from a shoot-em-up as boys.
Hilarie Claire Tomasiewicz
-How can something be truly both separate AND equal? In determining the
equality of two computer games, how it is it decided which characterisitcs
of a given girl's game correspond equally to those of a boy's?
David Mellis
-A few questions. One, does making games that girls will like have to
involve the furthering of stereotypes? A game that focuses more on relationships
and people, rather than action and objects, could appeal to girls without
being pink and girly.
-Second, is it possible to consider or change the disparities in girls'
access to computers outside of a larger societal context?
- You mention things like boys' clothing being the assumed norm, etc.
Can one of these issues be resolved without attention to the others?
Jeannie R. Ben-Hain
-One of the solutions suggested at the end of the article was creating
a strong female character without the sexual overtones of Lara Crofts.
Isn't the reason companies do this is because they dont want to lose their
core market? Theyve taken a step in this direction by making a strong
female character, but they still wanted to ensure that male gamers will
want to play (regardless of whether males will want to play solely because
of the sexual representation). Also, some of the Game Grrls mentioned
(like the CrackWhores) use overtly sexual tones to show a pro-feminist
stance. How is this different from Lara?
Christian Baekkelund
-One key thing immediately bothered me about this introduction: the
word "gender" is used almost wholly throughout this introduction (and
book) to mean something that could be more accurately described in almost
every case with the word "girl". This is acknowledged in the "What Do
We Mean by Gender?" section of the introduction, but I don't understand
the reasoning. The explanations given are "in terms of a rejection of
biological determinism" and "in terms of an acceptance of the study of
women and girls as fundamental to the study of culture"?
-Additionally, I found some mistakes in the introduction as well: all
versions of Mortal Kombat have indeed had female character/warriors, and
there are no "damsels in distress" in the first version of the game (except
maybe in backgrounds of later versions -- where there are also men).
-Also, I wonder about what makes a game "androgynous". The exploration
games for the most part seem to be androgynous...or at least as long as
the player's avatar is non-human (ie., a donkey or hedgehog)?-One interesting
note to make with respect to Sierra Online is that Phantasmagoria 2 (which
has scenes of graphic sex -- oddly usually with a very dominant female)
was created at Sierra Online by a woman, and stars a male character and
has been considered a relatively masculine game. How did this come about
and why is it seen as such?
Adrienne DeWolfe
-In my own classroom (8-10 year olds) I know that I can certainly confirm
many of the generalizations about boys and girls and computer use. Boys
most frequently asked to have extra time on our classroom computers to
play games, while if a girl asked for extra time it was usually to complete
an assignment or make a card or banner. If equal access is being given
in a classroom, what else can or should educators do to lessen the computer
interest gap?
Adam Smith
-The author brings up in interesting point about how the use of power
mowers in men is higher than that of women. Why do men buy more power
motors? Is it because men were encouraged to do much dangerous and manly
things when young? If so, then how does this relate to the PC movement.
Computers require unlimited patience and a sedentary lifestyle which seems
much feminine and yet males were the first attracted over females. Why?
Anindita Basu
-Since different cultures have varying gender roles, has any research
been conducted on how the same games are received cross-culturally with
respect to gender?
-What is the gender split for games that are more popular with girls,
such as Ms. Pacman? Does the difference in gender and computer games vary
with age?
-What do girls who play computer games have to say? Why do they play?
How do their interests compare to girls who don't play games?
-What are the ratios on MUDs and other online games which allow for both
fighting and socialization? Who plays those and why? Does that provide
some sort of medium?
-It seems that there's a vicious cycle--girls see computers as functional
and don't play with them much, but adults want girls to play games to
become familiar with them and learn useful skills, so that reinforces
the utilitarian notion of computers. Where's the fun?
Char DeCroos
-Increasingly, society (at least offically) is present gender equality
at the norm. If this tendency is true, then girls should no longer have
to 'fight with boys to get a turn' with computers. Is it computers that
are inherently presented as masculine, or is it merely the majority of
recreactional material available on the computers. Wouldn't productivity
software eventually counteract this disparity?
Raffi Krikorian
-At one point, it is stated that girls don't like to compete with boys
to use the computer. both genders will use the computer and enjoy it,
but boys "hog" it and the girls don't want to start a confict over it.
how do you rectify this with the statistic given that a significant portion
of companies are being run by women? that seems to be a very competetive
position to be in.
Carlos Cantu
-On one side you have the big industry players hoping to expand the existing
game market to include both male and female interests, on the other you
have Purple Moon type companies that want to create a girls-only market.
Don't both of these approaches focus merely on the companies attempt to
corner this specific section of the market before the other company? Is
this about creating market driven barriers to entry or is this about girls?
Interview with Brenda Laurel
Walter Dan Stiehl
-I find it interesting how stereotypical the Purple Moon software is of
a "girl's game" in the sense of the idea of characters telling Rockett
their feelings, such as Jessie saying "This is making me feel bad" etc.
Do girls at a young age vocalize their feelings in this way? It seems
from our earlier look at play therapy that children in general do not
vocalize, let alone understand, their emotions so distinctly.
Stephanie K. Dalquist
-Is it really that girls love seeing things in different media at once
or profit that drove the development of Purple Moon merchandise so early?
Weren't the exploration games (ie Sonic, Ecco) mentioned in the previous
reading as being rather popular with girls? Should girls be expected to
become as fanatic as boys do about them? Maybe fanaticism is not the best
way to measure how much one "likes" something.
Girim Sung
-Laurel explains the reason for directing her product specifically for
girls: "because we wanted to protect the experience as being something
girls could own. . .I own this and you don't get to make fun of it." I
was really surprised at how each paper keeps stating that girls are so
influenced by the opinions of boys, i.e. once the boy makes fun of her
playing a game, she doesn't play. Would it be too naive to ask why does
this happen? Why aren't boys influenced in the same way by girls' opinions?
Mike Ananny
-One of Laurel's arguments seems circular and self-perpetuating: she supports
her argument that girls are not interested in skill mastery with evidence
from girls' video games interactions designed for boys; Laurel then states
that girls games should therefore not emphasize skill mastery because
they have not been successful in video game contexts and, besides, skill
mastery is "not very good social currency for a girl." (As an aside, the
application and management of mastery is critical but children should
never be discouraged from the act of skill mastery!) It seems that girls'
interactions with boys' video games are used as design guidelines for
girls' game development but, in the process, have the effect of reinforcing
the stereotypes originally built into the boys' games. In essence, designing
in response to stereotypes (e.g. skill mastery implicit in boys' games)
may actually support the root stereotype (e.g. that girls are not interested
in skill mastery).
Joseph Kaye
-I think Laurel's realization of the necessity for emphasis on storytelling
(p133) and character (p125) is important and fundamental, but I think
she underestimates the role it plays in boy's play - look at the extensive
plot- and story-driven adventure and role playing games which are closely
centered on a narrative.
Max Bajracharya
-Laurel seems to compare her work with Quake and other such games, but
her aim seems different. She seems to be aiming for an educational type
of game, not a game of pure fun. Or does she think that this is precisely
what girls think is fun?
Hilarie Claire Tomasiewicz
-Laurel is right on when she talks of personal relevance as being incredibly
important to girls in terms of the games they like to play. I wonder why
is it then that Barbie is so popular with girls when she (being a sexually
mature adult) is just about the farthest thing away from having 'personal
relevance' to a little girl's life?
David Mellis
-The interview doesn't go into the technical challenges involved in making
games for girls. In a lot of ways, these games seem more challenging to
create, requiring things like natural language understand. How much of
a factor is this in the lack of girls' games currently in existence. Second,
I'm curious about the interview process. Who wrote the questions? I'm
assuming these weren't done in person, the answers seem long and polished.
What was the interview process?
Jeannie R. Ben-Hain
-I just love sweeping generalizations like "they [girls] will play boys'
games if there's nothing else to do and they even like some of them".
Speaking as a girl who liked playing "boys' games", just as enthusiastically
as my brothers, how can they make statements like this about the way girls
play with video games? Possibly in some situations girls wouldn't feel
comfortable claiming a boy's game as something they like.
Christian Baekkelund
-The comment is made that "both girls and boys believe that video game
machines are "boy things" and that computers are gender-neutral". Why
is this and how did this come about? And why is this contrary to Sherry
Turkle's finding -- what was her finding?
-Also, why does "Chess for Girls" call games like "Sonic the Hedgehog"
androgynous, and yet Laurel calls the same game a "boy's game"? What is
the difference in viewpoint?
-Also, Laurel says a lot about what girls' games should have in them and
how they should be structured, frequently in manners that are far more
technologically complicated than their boy-predecessors, and yet she makes
no comments as to how they should or could actually be implemented? For
example, Laurel mentions that girls don't like level-based games with
obstacles, however, a much more open, non-linear, and exploratory counterpart
is also far far more difficult to actually make...what sort of proposals
exit for bridging this gap other than simply saying that it needs to happen?
Adrienne DeWolfe
-Is Purple Moon still around today, or did they not make it? I wonder
if the focus should be on games that will appeal to kids in general rather
than creating more computer software to appeal along pretty strict gender
lines. I thought her comments about storytelling as a relationship were
wonderful. What can be learned from that and applied?
Adam Smith
-As I read this interview my thoughts center around the fact that the
company eventually sold out with the end result, the purple moon website,
as a rather shabby example of breakthrough girl research. It is easy to
rave about Barbie fashion designer and how it opened up a new market for
girls but what do we learn from the purple moon failure?
Anindita Basu
-Is she claiming that embodiment is more of a female trait/interest?!
-How does the tween movement fit in with Laurel's game design and marketing
strategy? Are others picking up on the same issues and capitalizing on
them? How do products for tweens stand out from products for younger kids
or teens?
Char DeCroos
-Laurel states that mastery for its own sake is never very good social
currency for a girl. However, I don't think most boy games produce mastery
for its own sake but mastery over some principal of competition. Does
it seem like Laurel's "girl against the world" games seem to be pushing
the same principle -- social competition?
Raffi Krikorian
-Is there the same concern for computer games with girls that people have
with video games for boys? there has been all this controversy lately
on violent video games for boys, is there any analogous problem for computer
games for girls?
Carlos Cantu
-Laurel mentions that "relavance, personal relavance" is very important
to little girls aged 7-12. Do little boys share the same attitude? IF
not, then why?
Game Grrls Interview
Walter Dan Stiehl
-Why is it "Grrls" instead of "Girls"? What is the significance of this
spelling? Is it to imply an ultra-feminist, rough, attitude? What percentage
of the female computer gamer is a Game Grrl?
Stephanie K. Dalquist
-Where are these women when "girl game" companies go out to do market
research? Granted they're older than the Purple Moon target audience,
but the attitude has to start sometime!
Girim Sung
-I agree with Goulet that the it is men's, not women's ideal body image
that is represented in video game characters. Even Lara Croft, with her
intelligence and ability to master physical and intellectual challenges,
embodies men's ideal of women in body and mind. Goulet asks the gaming
industry to "find out what the ideal female" would be for a woman. What
do women think the ideal woman is? Will it be similar to a man's ideal
minus the revealing clothing? Is the woman's ideal simply the man's ideal
with, "sweatpants and a sweater?" After all, 99%of girls in U.S. owns
a barbie.
Mike Ananny
-How representative is the 'game grrlz' movement of girls in general;
e.g. how many of them were surveyed and how old are they? Are they raising
these questions as representatives of the mainstream or as critics of
the establishment?
Joseph Kaye
-I'm glad this section is included as a response to the rest of the book
- it's interesting looking in particular at their response to Sherry Turkle,
compared to the responses in each of the interviews. They do seem angry
and hardcore. But I wonder how representive they are of any demographic
out there: is this a fringe 1%?
Max Bajracharya
-So, after reading Laurel who's saying girls want social interaction type
games, and game grrls, who argue girls simply want the same thrill of
a victory that guys do, which type of game actually sells better? Do girls
want both the social and the thrills; or is it split between girl personality
types; or is it something social/nurtured; or perhaps simply a boy/girl
culture difference (need to be independent)?
Hilarie Claire Tomasiewicz
-Game Grrlz: said one game girl:"Barbie's not really a game. you point,
click, do all sorts of things, but where's the competition?" Has anyone
ever thought to design a fighting game for girls using Barbie? If girls
like fighting games as much as boys, wouldn't it be pretty smart of mattel
to use Barbie as the next Lara Croft in something similar to Tomb Raider?
Hell, she's got the pre-resiquite breasts already.
David Mellis
-A major theme running through these essays is the rejection of Purple
Moon and their claims about what girls like. While, I agree that these
girls definately represent a population that Purple Moon seems to be ignoring,
I also believe Brenda Laurel when she says that she's talked to thousands
of girls and this is what they like. But beyond that, why is Purple Moon
making a certain type of game for girls seen as saying those are the only
games that girls like? Why don't the game girls, and to some extent, the
authors, see Purple Moon as making games for girls, not the only games
for girls? When you talk about the dilemna between enforcing stereotypes
and getting girls to use computers, I think it ignores the fact that girls
can like a wide range of products, and companies can make an appropriate
range.
Jeannie R. Ben-Hain
-I don't really have a question on this one. I thought the idea of a "Glass
ceiling" game or even a mom with a machine gun telling people "There's
your dinner, baby!" would be pretty intriguing.
Adrienne DeWolfe
-Interesting. Is this a pretty marginal movement? How many girls of today
do they really speak for?
Char DeCroos
-The Game Grrlz state that women want everything in one place is unbelieveable
generalization. Does she seem to make such generalizations herself that
girls generally have a supressed love for "fragging, killing, and slaying
worlds." What solutions does she propose to make beside making girls have
less outlandish figure in videogames? Keep in mind that the outlandish
figures of airbrushes, digitally altered models still apparently sells
well with girls in a variety of media i.e. magazines and clothing advertisements.
Carlos Cantu
-Alizia Sherman writes that many studies about girl gaming reflect how
"we" condition girls to be passive. What do studies say about girl gamers
in other cultures? Does the same pattern emerge?
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